Christi sits down with Mind Springs Health CEO, John Sheehan, to discuss the important topics of mental health, the services Mind Springs offers, and the changes they have been making to bring the best mental health care to Western Colorado.
Learn more about their services at their website.
If you prefer to watch your podcasts, visit our YouTube page to see this and all our episodes!
Christi sits down with Mind Springs Health CEO, John Sheehan, to discuss the important topics of mental health, the services Mind Springs offers, and the changes they have been making to bring the best mental health care to Western Colorado.
Learn more about their services at their website.
If you prefer to watch your podcasts, visit our YouTube page to see this and all our episodes!
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Speaker 2:The Full Circle podcast, compelling interviews and incredible tales from Colorado's Western Slope, from the mountains to the desert. Christy Reese and her team here from the Movers Shakers, and characters of the Grand Valley and surrounding mountain towns that make the Western slope the place we all love. You'll learn, you'll laugh, you'll love with the full circle. Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Full Circle Podcast. I'm your host Kristi Reese, and I am excited and honored today to welcome our guest, Mr. John Sheehan , who is the CEO of Minds Springs Health. Welcome, John . Thank
Speaker 3:You. Yeah , thanks for
Speaker 2:Having me. Yeah. Really excited to have you here because there's a lot to talk about in the mental health arena. Um, Shira , who works at your, who works at Mind Springs Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> had contacted us about , um, talking to you during Mental Health Awareness Month and in November, and we couldn't quite make that happen. But , um, I kind of wanna start off with that because I think that it's really important to have some awareness in the community about the, the services that are available to people and what Mines Springs does. So, can you start there? Sure.
Speaker 3:Um, mines Springs is what I would call a legacy organization. It's a 50-year-old nonprofit . It's been around since , um, since a lot of the , uh, old community mental health centers formed , um, really as a result of some actions that the Kennedy administration took. Oh , wow . So it goes that far back. Um, it's, it's a really diverse nonprofit in that we have a large geography that we serve. We serve the entire , um, western slope of Colorado. Um, some 23,000 square miles.
Speaker 2:That's amazing.
Speaker 3:It's a lot of , uh, it's a lot of square mile , but there aren't a lot of people in some of those square miles, but yes, <laugh> . Um, but we do have a lot of responsibility and we have a lot of responsibility to deliver care in a rural setting, which is a lot harder than , um, than doing it in an urban setting. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . And so that creates some challenges. And , um, you know, you know , some of those challenges I inherited , uh, coming in and, and some of them , uh, we don't see as challenges we see as real opportunities. So,
Speaker 2:But the, the basis of the company that serves all these communities began here in Grand Junction
Speaker 3:50 years ago. Yes. Okay. Um, um, and I believe it was Colorado West was the name of the company. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> prior to , uh, being deviated as mine springs. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . So it's , uh, it's got a long history. Um, I think some of the best programs that we, we , we offer are, are programs for children and families and , um, and for adults . And , uh, and, and so the , um, the Women's Circle program is one program that we, that we offer that's a really unique opportunity for women to bring their, their , um, dependent children into care with them. Um, it's a
Speaker 2:Oh , that's wonderful.
Speaker 3:It's , it's really a , a great family building program. Uh , we've recently opened a psychiatric emergency room at our West Springs Hospital location so that anyone who's experiencing a mental health crisis can go there and find a safe , uh, place A state-of-the-Art Facility to Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> to find somebody to talk to. Um , 'cause what we're finding is a lot of people post covid , um, are, are, are getting themselves into situations emotionally , um, where unfortunately we're seeing a rise in suicides. And so we wanna make sure we've got the ability to intervene in multiple ways Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> to prevent those things from happening to not just adults, but we've had a lot of youth suicides, unfortunately.
Speaker 2:Well , we know that's a part of our community that we, we wanna change. Yeah . And , uh, thank you to your organization for providing resources for people.
Speaker 3:It's something that I think , um, it's our, it's our responsibility. It's the role that we have as mm-Hmm . <affirmative> as the type of organization that we are. We can't prevent everything. Um , but we can certainly do as much as we possibly can and raise the alarm bell to what's not being done. Um , and, and I , I think that more than anything will turn , uh, the result here. I think this is a , um, this isn't a , a , a one person, one organization, one, you know, one thing , uh, wrong type situation. This is a , a forest fire of multitude that comes
Speaker 2:From multi-layered
Speaker 3:For sure. Different directions. And, you know, there are a lot of factors. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , uh, pandemic doesn't help. Uh , but we had a lot of factors that were not in our favor prior to the pandemic as well. And, and this has just sort of made things a lot worse. And so we're, we're bracing for that. And I think as an organization, we want to sound that alarm and say, Hey, as communities, we have to align. We have to create community health alliances. We can't be fighting with each other or diluting resources. We need to ,
Speaker 2:The alliances are one way to get information to people. Right, right . About the services that you offer. Exactly. What , what, how else do you talk to people? Do you visit schools? Do you visit other groups? Um, how , how do you get the information out about , um, how people can get in touch and, and utilize your services?
Speaker 3:I think it's twofold. I think, I think you've gotta have , um, you know , I , I mentioned the idea of a community health alliance. So it's, so what that means is that it's different here , uh, in Grand Junction , uh, Mesa County than it would be, say in Glenwood Springs or , um, or in Pitkin County or in Aspen. Right. So, so we've got different resources, different issues. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , different politics that we've gotta work through. But generally , um, I think that you want to try to reach out to the populations of patients , um, who would be concerned about the quality of care. That was something immediately that I had to do was talk about, you know, what's available and what's the access. If it takes three weeks or three months to get into see somebody, well, that's obviously a barrier , uh, turns people away. And , and so we absolutely , we gotta fix that problem first. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . And that's not a perception problem. That's a , either you can get an appointment or you can't, there's no, you know, it's an if so, then so kind of thing. So we had to really work, I think, fast on our access model in Grand Junction in the other places that we operate. And also obviously look at access to the hospital. But then you start to engage the larger community to say, you know, what are we seeing in, in, in terms of, of need in the schools? What are we seeing in terms of need in , um, you know, employers, I hear more from employers than any other group really, in that their , their current insurance benefit does not offer adequate coverage for their , um, you know, for their members. Because basically nobody will take the rates that they're offering through those plans , um, for private insurance. And I , that's, you know, that's another alarming piece is, you know, you have people who are working with jobs with, with private insurance Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , who are not, you know, primarily the Medicaid population that we serve, who also don't have access to quality care. And that's, that's very concerning. That is so up and down the tiers of , of care.
Speaker 2:Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and you know, I I , when I started talking about mental health awareness, I, I tend to think of being aware of the resources that are out there. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . But it , it's , we also need to be aware of the, the causation and the , um, all the different things that people are going through. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, because they're , when , when I was reading up a little bit, I , I was reading , um, about mental health, but also behavioral health and how, how do you differentiate between those two? Because you service both, correct.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So it's interesting. I , I've been in this business about 30 years now. I started as a mental health tech working in a , a psych hospital. But my mom was a nurse practitioner , um, growing up in, and, and I think what I've seen change the most is the stigma of mental health has gone away tremendously. And it's, it's turned in , in a lot of good directions, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> with parody and some other things. And then I think the other thing that I've seen change the most is , um, is the idea that you have mental health or substance abuse , uh, treatment. Right. And there were , um, some researchers, there's a guy named Ken Minkoff that came out of Florida that I was really into for a long time that talked about, you know, there's, there's different quadrants. So you can be high mental health, high substance abuse, or you can be low mental health, high substance abuse. Right? But the idea was that it was likely that if you had a substance abuse or a mental health disorder, one or the other would be present. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And that, that idea has sort of moved into the scientific world. And Samson, I think estimates that it's higher than 90% likely that if you're, if you're suffering from a mental health disorder or you're diagnosed with a , uh, substance abuse disorder, that, that there may be one or the other present, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So it's a , it's a both and no wrong door approach. And that's where we got the term behavioral health. It's sort of that blending of the two disciples so that we've got , uh, our discipline so that we've got , um, a, a good unified approach to the clinical care. And , um, to give you an example, we have a psychiatric emergency room that we just opened at West Springs Hospital. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , west Springs Hospital has 48 inpatient psychiatric beds. We have 16 beds for , uh, children with some of the best psychiatrists in the country seeing patients there. We do a lot of telework. Great . Um , but we have a lot of great, great care being delivered there. Um, but we get a lot of people off the street into the psych yard. We see about 200 people a month there now. Now, that's care we weren't providing before. That's 200 people that are in crisis that have a place to go that wasn't there , um, since January of last year. So that's a great
Speaker 2:Win, because that's an open door policy open that
Speaker 3:Has open . Yeah. We just started it, we started the program, we took it on ourselves to, you know, without, without the resources to do it, probably. But we said , you know , we think this is important really to address that high suicide rate.
Speaker 2:Um , and previously was it , um, needed a , a doctor's referral or
Speaker 3:A , a doctor's referral. We had a lot of people that would come to the front door and say, you know, I need help. And walk in and then say, you know, I changed my mind and , and leave. And it's kinda like, well, you can't just let people walk in and , and , and then leave. And so there's, there was a lot of changes that were needed at the front door to say, you know, let's make this a real ER for psychiatry. There . That model's not , um, prevalent in, in Colorado. I think it's the only, I think we're the only freestanding psychiatric emergency room in the state of Colorado. Wow . So it was a different idea that , I'm still not sure the state loves it, but , um, but the patients do, and we think it saved a lot of lives. So now we've attached that. The important thing is, is that right down the hall from, there was a, was a brand new state-of-the-art Detox Center. Right. With 14 beds. But it was only operating a 3.2 level of licensure, which meant anybody that came to the psych er, that needed medical clearance had to go to the ER first before we could detox. Oh boy. And so we actually just improved the level of licensure from the , the 3.2 to the 3.7 level of medical detox. So now we can walk people from the psych er right down to the medical , um, detox and keep them on campus without having to send them out to St . Mary's, which has made St . Mary's very happy. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . So , so , and , you know, it's a , it's a win for better for everybody. It's a win for the patient. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , it's a win for the resources that get wasted if they have to go to the ER for some unnecessary care. And it's, you know, it's a win for the clinical outcome and for the family that gets to , to visit that patient once they're stable. So it's , um, it's much better. I think long term it's gonna be, you know, this is gonna be the model of care that people expect in this community. So.
Speaker 2:Wonderful. So how many, you , you said about 200 patients a month. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, what do you think the the need is? I mean, do we need to expand services in this community? Do we have more need than service? Or are , are you at capacity or,
Speaker 3:Well, you know, we're not at capacity, which is , um, mystifying to me, you know, my, my board of directors , um, you know, people kind of know the history of, there were articles being written when I was, you know, coming in Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . I know there were prior , um, issues with the prior CEO or, or, you know, purported issues. But, you know, what I see is that there hasn't been a lot of attention paid by the state. There hasn't been a lot of attention paid by , um, you know, maybe by the, you know, just, just the powers that be that look at healthcare in Colorado to say, what kind of system of care do we need to deal with? The fact that, you know, the , uh, mental Health America just published their annual report in 2023 in April. It said, Colorado's 45th <laugh> out of 51 states in the United States of America for mental health access. That's embarrassing. Yeah . That's, that's embarrassing. And we should be ashamed of it, and we should be doing something about it. And instead we've got a lot of legislation, but we've got a lot of broken. Um, we've just got a lot of broken processes. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . And I think we've got pretty much chaos in the behavioral health administration at this point. And we need, you know , we lead need leadership, and we need a clear direction on what are we gonna do about the people in these communities that aren't getting the care that they need. Now, to your , to your question directly, this hospital was built by my board of directors before I got here. They spent $48 million building it state didn't put forth a dime. Alright . Communities, communities like Glenwood Springs put forth money. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> , Aspen put forth money , uh, I think Vail put forth money. Uh , individuals put forth dollars. Banks gave us favorable lending rates. Foundations in Denver gave us money, right. All to create this state-of-the-art facility that has pretty much sat there since it , since it opened half. All right. And, and , and , and it's half full while 65% of the admissions in the Western slope go to Denver for their care. Right. Whether they like it or not, it's not, the patients are preferring to go there. This was just the flow. And the building of this hospital didn't change that flow because the state never stepped in and said, Hey, we're building a system of care here. This is a state of the art facility. How are we all gonna work together? The insurer, you know , UnitedHealthcare involved, everybody sit down and say, how do we make sure that this patient gets from where they are to where they need to be Yeah . In what we call a continuum of care. What's the next rate thing for that patient? And there doesn't seem to be a clear answer on that, and that's what we're trying to address now. Continuum
Speaker 2:Of care is challenging in all aspects of healthcare , I would guess. Yeah . Um , but particularly so in this situation. And how does telemedicine and telehealth play a role in, in , uh, what you're doing now? And, and are you expanding that because Sure . You do work in a lot of rural areas.
Speaker 3:Yes . So think one of the reasons that I was selected for this role is when I was in Ohio , uh, my first CEO job was as , uh, CEO for an agency in Ohio where we actually , um, we actually hung a , a for-profit telehealth company off of a a hundred year old nonprofit . And this was before covid. So this was actually before all of the rules changed. So it was a little harder actually, to deliver the care. Um , but we found that , um, with this health home that we had, we had a lot of , we had , we had the largest for children in the country, that we were able to deliver care much more efficiently and effectively. And then when Covid did hit, we actually sent out 4,000 iPads to these kids and, you know, found out we could observe them in their home environment. And that was even better in terms of a , a treatment outcome. So there was a lot of , uh, a lot of good that came out of that. I see the same technology being applied here , um, as I mentioned , uh, the hospital right now, you know, which is, you know, it , it's struggling financially because it's not being utilized to its fullest potential. And these, you know, articles haven't helped and all the history of it Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But it is a state of your place. And we've got now , uh, we're working with Intermountain Health, which is famous for its, you know, innovation in tele . And, and we've got some of the best psychiatrists, best doctors, best therapists in the world working right in Grand Junction. And it's fully staffed for 40 patients. Uh , it's got a capacity of 48, and it's really running around 26 when we know there's hundreds of admissions going to Denver that don't need to. And so we're working hard to try to work that out with the state and say, let's work together and make this place a gem so that people don't have to go, you know, hundreds of miles away from their home to get the care they need. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So there's a, there's a historical flow issue. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . Um, and, and you mentioned stigma earlier, and I think it has improved greatly. And I think it will continue to improve , um, that , that the stigma will diminish. And I think a lot of that has to do with the young kids realizing that it's okay to say, yeah , they're having mental health issues. I mean, it's really prevalent, right? I talk to my kids about it all the time and , and they're not afraid to talk about it. Um, but there , there is still some stigma, right? Does that keep people out of facility?
Speaker 3:I , I think there is some stigma. I think, you know, I , it , it's hard to say how it's changed, but it's less outright and it's , um, kids talk about it more online, but it's also been used in bullying more Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm . And so it can be twisted a little more. And then there's also that fear that, you know, somebody's gonna get some misinformation even if they're seeking help, that they're seeking help and they're getting to the right place. Particularly kids, particularly vulnerable kids, right? Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> that they're getting the right information, that they're getting to the right group that they wanna talk to. Not a , not a group of kids that are gonna twist what they say or bully them with what they say. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . And that , that I think has happened. And I think it happens more prevalently than, than we think and, or nor that it should. So,
Speaker 2:Yeah. So , um, what do you want our community to know about , uh, your services and, and if they know somebody that's in need Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , how do they go about , um, contacting, I mean, I love this idea of an open door policy, but are there, is there misinformation or is there a lack of information , um, to the general public? So do they know how to access
Speaker 3:Things? So mine springs.org is the easiest way to access our care, and it'll give you a couple options to do that. You can do it through the portal when you land, or you can do it through the phone number where you land. Um, I think the difference you'll see between the old mine springs and the Mine Springs of today is that you can get an appointment , uh, tomorrow to see a therapist or to see a psychiatrist. And from the point of which I walked in in a , or August, excuse me, I think it , I think it was about three months for an initial appointment. That's , um, so we've been able to make real progress , uh, on access in Grand Junction, and we're working on the other areas of the state that we serve , uh, to do the same. And as I mentioned, we're using tele Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> , but we're also using a lot of great therapists that have been here for a really long time, who have been doing great work for Mine Springs. Um , good, you know, throughout their career. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> and actually came here, trained here, and stayed here. And I'm really proud of that group as well.
Speaker 2:You mentioned that you came here in August of 22 Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> , uh, nationwide search. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> for a new CEO Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> after some, some troubling things came to light Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> with the organization. Can you talk a little bit about the challenges that you faced in turning things around at Red
Speaker 3:Springs? Sure. I think , um, you know, probably coming in , uh, you know, first of all, the reason that I took the job , um, is a dear friend of mine that I've known for a long time, who, you know, came to me and said, I really think that this place is uniquely , um, needing something you can bring to it, right ? Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . And, and I, you know, I've been doing this a while , you know, you don't, I don't, I don't have a big ego, and it's kind of , uh, you kind of know what you're good at, right? And I've done quite a few turnarounds, and I've done quite a few , um, you know, things like when I was, you know, very young at BayCare Health System, I got handed a bunch of behavioral health stuff for 11 hospitals, and we turned that into a , a continuum of care into a service line that's still there. And so I'm proud of that work, and it's something I do well. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . And so it , looking at mine Springs , it was pretty evident that there were a , there were, there were a lot of issues , um, but most significantly that there was not a lot of structure and not a lot of , um, planning and, and not a lot of , um, utilization of what I thought was the organization's greatest strength. One, it had state-of-the-art facilities, and two, it had some of the best clinical people I had ever met. Um, so that's great to hear. So that was why I , I came, right ? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> it was , it was those three factors, right? Someday I knew really well who had spent some time out here and kind of believed in the vision. Um , then I met the people, and then I met the board. You know, I met , um, you know , some of the board members. We've got a really eclectic board. Um, you know, we have some people that are Grand Junction legends. We've got the Sheriff of Mesa County, and we've got some young, you know, really , uh, go-getter type folks from , uh, from, from , uh, the Aspen and Glenwood areas. And we've got , uh, you know, we've just got a really eclectic board. And , and I've really enjoyed , um, sort of, sort of sitting in the room with all of these different opinions and these different backgrounds all united in one thought, which is we want to improve mental health care and not just, not just double down on what we've been doing, but like, create something that isn't, which is very energizing for a new CEO to come into and, and really feel like he's got, you know, a lot of support from not just the , the board members themselves, but from the community at large. So,
Speaker 2:And you felt like, I mean, obviously you want to focus on patient care Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, but your first task was to get in and get things straight in the organization. Yes . Yes. Did you have a timeline goal for getting certain things in place? I know as a business owner, you know, we try to set deadlines and Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> by who and by when. Um, but gosh, that had to be really challenging to, to think about having to do that while your main focus needs to be patient care. Yeah .
Speaker 3:I think, I think what was clear from the beginning were was we had, you know , we had a state audit. We had just had to triag agency audit. I had an initial meeting with Hick Puff and their , uh, a director Kim Bim fester . And , um, and I had a meeting with , uh, um, with the folks from Rocky Mountain Health Plan or United Healthcare, and they, you know, everyone voiced their concern. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> obviously every public official in Grand Junction, especially Janet Rowland. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> voiced their concern. So my real question was, what was here that could be improved dramatically, right? So , if there was something here, but there were, you know, there was a , there was a lot of talk about the former CEO or, you know, the way you approach that is you kind of come in, you try to see who's qualified to do what and where,
Speaker 2:And make sure you have the right people in the right seats.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And, and, and unfortunately coming in , um, you know, I had a lot of concerns about the people that were in those chairs, probably more than, you know , I've been doing this a while , and it was probably more than any Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> position I had been in that I felt like I just didn't have anything to work with. Right. It , this wasn't, I needed to tweak something or coach somebody. This was, I needed to change everything. Yeah . And so, including the management company that had been hired 30 days prior to my coming in Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so we, you know, we just fired, you know, all the folks that we felt were part of the problem, including, you know, there was a real issue with some prescribing practices, and so we needed to clean house on the , on the physician side. And so we did that , um, as well. So, so a lot of change, lot , lot , lot of change very quickly , um, more quickly than I've ever done anything like that in my career. It was , uh, it was, it was pretty dramatic, but it, you know, it , it , it got everybody's attention. <laugh> . Yes . Uh , and I , and it opened the door to hiring the best team I've had in my career. I've got a group of wonderful people working now as the senior leadership team at Mine Springs, who get up every day just thinking of different ways to, to provide more care. Mm . And we , we call it care to the community. You know, we , we want to be maniacal about taking what we get and turning it into, you know, how do we help more people? Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> in the areas that we're, that we're responsible for.
Speaker 2:One of the quotes that I read that I really liked , um, again, as a business owner , uh, it really , um, resonated with me was compliance doesn't mean quality. No. Like, it's, you have to be compliant. Uh, but you gotta do so much more than that.
Speaker 3:Right. And , and, you know, sometimes even, you know, compliance can, can be problematic when it comes to quality. Right. And, and so there are, you know, and that doesn't happen all the time, but, but I think there needs to be a constant conversation about the business that we're in, the fact that some people view it as a pseudoscience, and it's our job to change that perception. Right? Yeah . We're obviously a part of healthcare . Um, we're, we're now the biggest cost in healthcare, which is why everybody's paying so much attention to us. Now. I'd , I'd love to believe that everyone woke up one day and said, well , behavioral health's a huge issue. Let's all mm-Hmm.
Speaker 2:<affirmative> , let's get
Speaker 3:Behind it . Let's all start talking about it. But it does have a cost aspect to it, and part
Speaker 2:Of it's now the largest cost it is
Speaker 3:In healthcare . In healthcare and , and chronic disease. And so we jumped hearts and cancer and all of that. And so if you look at taking, let's say you're , let's say you're , uh, Rocky Mountain Health Plan , you're a Medicaid , uh, plan, and you take first dollar risk on Medicaid for this region, you better have an answer for behavioral health, right. To either treat it in a way that's gonna improve outcomes that are gonna produce real savings or somehow figure out how to not to pay for it. Right. And I think we're in the transition, I think we're in the transition phase between, you know, the old model of let's figure out a way not to pay for it, and oh, we're just gonna have to pay for it, and let's figure out what the best models of care are together so that we Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> are balancing service outcome and cost. Right. But that's gotta be a , an a , you know, a a both of us having a conversation about the care model versus a, we're not paying for it. Right. And that, that, I think those days are gone. Um , you know, and I'm not sure the insurance companies have gotten the memo yet, but not paying for it, I don't think is the answer you can give anymore .
Speaker 2:No, definitely not. Uh , I think more and more people see it as integrated. I mean, at least on the consumer side, I think those of us that are, are not in healthcare. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> think Absolutely. It's a part of your overall health. Right. And I think the pandemic showed that to a lot of us, we have to really pay attention to our mental health. Right.
Speaker 3:And if you have a commercial benefit, I mean, think about it . If you have commercial insurance, you have a good job, but nobody in town will take your insurance because your insurance company doesn't pay enough for the benefit. Right. Like,
Speaker 2:Yeah .
Speaker 3:And you're an employer and you know, now that mental health is such a huge factor to your business being successful. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , these are the things that, you know, that I think about it , I don't
Speaker 2:Anybody else does things . Well , thank you for thinking about it at night . Sure . Yeah . Sure. Um, it sounds like the Grand Junction , uh, or the regional , um, situation that you've got is pretty unique to the country. Are there other models that you're following that have been successful and something similar?
Speaker 3:I've done this before. So when I was in Tampa Bay , um, I mentioned I worked for Baker Health System. We had a , we had a psych ER at every site where we had a pretty much every site where we had a psych , um, facility or , or we had inpatient beds. And so I know that model works. I also know that , uh, we integrated a , a community mental health center, the largest community mental health center in the state of Florida into that model. And that, that helped because you could bring these really skilled case managers who did nothing but place people in the community and keep them there. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> , you could bring them into the hospital and help to discharge plan for these patients. And that was a better continuum, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I know that detox , uh, needs to be a component of care to any, you know, any stabilization of a patient. And I know that patients get, get well long-term through habilitation and through long-term rehabilitation. And, and, and we don't have half of that continuum built , built out yet here. So, so it's taking someone from where they are, which is probably the worst day in their life, them and their family Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> and getting them from there to where they want to be and beneficial wellness. Right. And , and what are the things that you have to do in between consistently? Those are the things you have to build. Those are the things that are missing. That's a gap. Right. And, and we haven't done much of that here, and we need to do more.
Speaker 2:So do you have , um, do you and your board, have you built a long range plan for the things that you want to institute next? What does that look like?
Speaker 3:We've done a three year strategic plan. So , um, you know, you know, years one through three are basically save the place <laugh> . Right . So we're in , we're about a year and a half into that. We're still, you know , there's this , this place is still on the edge. This hospital's been losing money for five years. Um , in my view though, this board has really been holding open and access point for the state of Colorado. Um , you know , despite a lot of financial hardship. And, you know, there was a lot of , uh, you know, there was , there was a lot of activity around , uh, compliance. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , um, you know, but, but I don't know as much credit has been given to, you know, what this board has done to build these facilities and to keep them open. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . So , so I , I would just point that out, but I think the , you know, the number one thing is to, to put out the fires and to make sure that people begin to trust us Again, my job has really been to go around and, you know, and give my word to public officials and keep that word right ? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . And so when I said to public officials we were gonna fix the, the access to care problem, well, you know, that perception, which was real, has gone away when I said, we're gonna stop prescribing benzodiazepines to patients that don't need them. Uh , we've done that, right? Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> when I said, you know , we were gonna improve the access model for the hospital. Well , we've got a , we've got a group of 11 hospitals meeting , um, tomorrow for the first time to begin a Six Sigma project to discuss the best way to get a patient into West Springs Hospital. Right. Because yeah . We're the nearest receiving facility to all 11 of those hospitals. We should be the hub. Right. Um , I wish the state of Colorado would come out and say, this is the hub. Let's all work together and get it done. But if they're not gonna do it, we will. And we're gonna try and figure out a way to get this , uh, get this community services that it needs this community and surrounding communities. Right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, this is, we're talking
Speaker 2:Thousand . How many, how many counties?
Speaker 3:Uh , this is about 11. We , we serve 20 counties, so, yeah . Um, yeah. It's a lot. That
Speaker 2:Is a lot. Um, through the transition to your new leadership, did the board of directors have a lot of changeover as well?
Speaker 3:The board did have a lot of changeover. Um, and I, you know, I , I think a lot of that was due to some of the compliance activity , some of the concerns about transparency. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> , um, and some , so some of the board held over and some was changed over. Um, so I'm, I'm not privy to all of that. Yeah . I was around for some of it. I , I , I did participate in the plan of correction. So a lot of what , what I've been doing for the last year and a half is just kind of taking that triag agency audit and going down the list and fixing everything on the list. Right. And so we're about to look at a new electronic health record, which , which will solve some of these documentation issues , which were so prevalent in a lot of that Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , uh, conversation. But , um, but it , but it's really just been, you know, this is the list of things that need to be fixed, and, and I think that's gonna be something we're doing for a while .
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. It's a big job.
Speaker 3:Does that make
Speaker 2:Sense? It does, yes. Um, I wanna circle back a little bit , um, uh, a little bit more personal about you. Sure . I was , uh, reading that you , um, your education was in accounting and finance and business. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and then , uh, uh, English and creative writing, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah . Yeah. I graduated from the Florida State University, which just got the worst outcome possible in the , in the ,
Speaker 2:With the bowl situation, the
Speaker 3:Football bowl situation. Come
Speaker 2:On . Yeah . That
Speaker 3:Was ridiculous. Class of 93 though. <laugh> . I was, I was the first year I graduated, the first year I won the national championship, so yeah. It's a great place to go to school. Mm-Hmm.
Speaker 2:<affirmative>. And so , um, how did you transition to the healthcare world?
Speaker 3:You know, my mom is a , is a, was a nurse. Um, she was actually started as a speech therapist, I don't think, I think when we moved to Florida, they didn't do speech therapy in the school . So she ended up going back to nursing school, and then she was working as a psychiatric nurse , um, at a psych hospital. And I was in, I think, high school or college when I first started. Uh , I was 18 and , uh, and just started working as a psych tech. And then I kind of became a code team leader and some different stuff. And then went and got a degree at Florida State and came back and decided I wasn't gonna be able to get a job creatively writing many places <laugh> . So I , uh, I just
Speaker 2:Started Tough way to make a living.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Started working in the business, and I actually started grant writing , um, which, which is kind of how I got into administration. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , because I got to know Medicaid and how the money flowed. And then part of what you had to do is you had to sit in a room with clinicians and they would have to explain to you how they were gonna use this money. And it just was a , it was a great segue into what I do today. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . But basically what I do today. So
Speaker 2:If you were gonna give advice to , uh, a young person that , uh, wanted to get into the business side of healthcare Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, what kinds of , uh, I mean, business management and accounting and finance, is that what you would recommend?
Speaker 3:You know, I would say business management, accounting, and finance. But I would also be thinking this is gonna be a really creative business in the future. Right. So,
Speaker 2:Ever expanding .
Speaker 3:Yeah. If you're an old Clayton Christensen fan , uh, fan, you know, they , the hospitals look a lot, hospitals look a lot like steel mills. You know, you had that theory of the steel mill that, you know, all of the different channels of business get taken away slowly. There's this great revolution going on with technology right now. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . And, and so that technology, you know , in healthcare, we tend to be about 10 to 15 years behind the technology. That's, that's probably a good thing. Um , because it gives the technology time to mature. And we don't like to, you know , necessarily endanger patients. But it can be a little frustrating, right. Because you feel like you're going back in time sometimes when you go to the hospital and you sit down , um, you go , you go into , you can go to Mind Springs, you can feel 30, like you're going 30 years back in time. <laugh>. But the, but, but the idea right now is there are people creating virtual health systems, you know, in the cloud. Right. What does that look like? What do the wearables that come out of that look like? What does vr, you know, how does that fit into all of that? Yeah . You know , I've got a really good friend of mine that runs the VR lab at the University of Michigan. He tells me all this crazy stuff they're doing, and I don't know. So, so there's all this cool stuff and cool technology coming, and it just hasn't cracked the surface yet of what's a very hard healthcare industry. Right . I mean, we're harder than oil right now in terms of trying to protect Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , you know, the infrastructure, you know, the covid did not, you know, did not help healthcare's , um, public , uh, perception. Perception. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , I think is the way to , to put it, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> , uh, it , it, it dinged us in a lot of areas that , uh, fairly or unfairly, you know, we were exposed, and so we got an answer for some , we got an answer for some of that stuff, but some of it's gonna be this new technology.
Speaker 2:Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> do you mean healthcare system as a whole? Or mental health care in in particular?
Speaker 3:I think mental health care . So, <laugh> , so a lot of my career, I tell this joke a lot , a lot of my career, I've sat in a room with, you know , uh, a lot of cardiologists who will tell you for hours on end why the heart is the most important organ in the body. Or if you happen to be with, you know, you know, a kidney doctor, they're gonna tell you about the kidney. Right. I , I hang around with a lot of brain doctors, right. And I think our argument's pretty good that the brain is probably the most predominant organ in the body. And that , uh, its role has been diminished just 'cause it's harder to understand than all the others, right ? Yeah . And so now what we're doing, just like with the genome, we're mapping the brain and with the mapping of the brain is going to come a multitude of things that I haven't even got, I haven't even started to imagine.
Speaker 2:It's hard to imagine everything.
Speaker 3:Yes . It's , it's , you know, and , and combine that with ai, right? Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . And this, you know, this is gonna predominate healthcare . I believe, I believe the brain and the brain's health will predominate healthcare because every other organ is affected by the brain's health, essentially. And, and that, that I think is, is where we're headed. I think you have , you've had , uh, you know, a number of theories that developed a couple hundred years before me that have sort of come , you know, you had, you know, you have all the, you know, the , the , the psychologists, you had the psychiatrists, and you have the, you know, the folks that are doing other things and, and all those things are kind of coming back together, I think. Mm-Hmm . And , and with this new technology, I think we're gonna see real big change in the next 20 years that like, just fi we won't, it won't look the same.
Speaker 2:So many industries are facing that. Yeah . We just can't even imagine where things are gonna go. Yeah. Fascinating.
Speaker 3:Meanwhile, <laugh>, yes , we have a lot of really sick people, more than we've ever had, and we have a lot of really sick children. Um , or we have a lot of children who are at risk of being really sick. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And, and that has to be addressed now. And we've destroyed generations of kids with, with the opium epidemic. And, and we have to look at between now and that future day when we've got better technology and better tools. Like what are the things we know work things we know work are the , those handoffs I was talking about. Right. Making sure we engage kids, making sure we engage families. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> making sure it's the next right thing model. Right. Not, well, this is available, so this is what you get. Right.
Speaker 2:Do you, and I , I , I think on the consumer level or, you know, just casual conversations with , uh, family, friends , um, we talk about has the mental health issue for kids always been there and it's just now coming to light that kids have these issues. Um, I mean, obviously opioid is, is a completely different thing, and that has , uh, changed a lot of landscapes. But are , are we just becoming more aware of issues that kids and adults face?
Speaker 3:I don't, you know, I don't have any numbers to support this, but I , I'll tell you my own feeling is that it's gotten much worse. And, and it's gotten much worse because of technology. Yeah . Because of phones and the internet and apps and TikTok and, you know, I'm not particularly gonna single any one thing out as evil, but kids are being exposed to more, more than we were ever even, I mean, we , we couldn't have handled this much exposure. Right ? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . And it , and it's, it's scary. And then you put them in a situation where there's a social , social isolation . I iation for two to three years, right? Mm-Hmm . With, with really no contact with the outside world at all. And then this technology has even more of a hold. I think that's really scary for, for what kids have been exposed to. I think for , um, you know , I think for kids of a certain generation, the opioid crisis has just devastated, you know, their families. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> that will never be the same. And that cuts through socioeconomic lines like nothing else, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, it doesn't matter if you have money or don't have money, you could easily have been affected by that , um, epidemic. And , uh, you know, we've lost a generation of kids as a result of that. Right. We did that to ourselves. I mean, I was, you know, I've been , I was in the hospitals, you know, saying, you know , what's your pain level? Right. You know, I can't, can't have any pain. Right. We gotta give you something for the pain and we hooked the whole generation. Oh
Speaker 2:Yeah. It , it's , um, it's such an important part of our community. I want to thank you for , um, we , for being there for our community. I mean, it is , um, we talk a lot about community on this podcast, and we, we feel like, you know, we all live here, we're invested and we want the best for our community. And, and there's so many ways we can improve things here. Yeah. Uh , for the quality of life for people. And mental health services has got to be a big part of that. So thank you.
Speaker 3:It's such , yeah. It's such a beautiful place. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . And it , um, I've taken up mountain biking and I'm , I'm sitting on the public health board, which is really, you know, what's interesting is that the trails are part of the public health
Speaker 2:Isn't that wonderful board ,
Speaker 3:Which I think is really cool, right? Yep . There's so much here. Right. And yeah . And I think Mine Springs can do so much more for this community than it has in the past. And, you know, I can tell you that you've got some people working there , um, who are really dedicated to doing that every single day. And , uh, and they, they're inspiring me a little bit. I'm , you know, I'm a little long on the tooth, but they get me outta bed every day to make sure, you know, make sure that , uh, that we're getting the job done. So I'm excited.
Speaker 2:It seems like you're very dedicated as well. So I thank you for that. Thank
Speaker 3:You. Appreciate .
Speaker 2:In closing, is there anything that you would like to share about , uh, mines Springs, or , um, you know, services that are offered , uh, and how to get in touch or, I mean, I would know we talked about it a little bit, but I just wanna give you one more opportunity to , to share with our listeners and our viewers. Um, you know, if somebody's struggling
Speaker 3:Yeah. If you're struggling, get help, right? Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , if you're out there and you're using drugs, fentanyl's a real thing. Don't risk it. Go get some help. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , we've got medication assisted treatment , uh, through our detox. If you're in a mental health crisis, you can go right to our psych or right on our campus. Uh , go to our , our , um, our, our , uh, mine springs.org and you can book an appointment , um, tomorrow to see a psychiatrist or a therapist, or we can hook you up with case management. We can even help find you a place to live. Mm . Um, so whatever the issue is , just start the process. Find, help some , but if you can't find help with us, 2, 1 1 is always available to you . If it's the , that serious 9 1 1 is always available to you, right. If it's a matter of life or death, it's a matter of life or death, all right ? But if you're in that state where you're thinking about hurting yourself and you're thinking about hurting somebody else, you need to get help immediately.
Speaker 2:Immediately, yes .
Speaker 3:Immediately. Don't wait. Don't wait. It won't go away.
Speaker 2:Yeah . Thank you very much, John. Appreciate you being here today. And , uh, again, minds springs.org.
Speaker 3:Minds springs.org
Speaker 2:Is the website.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Why don't we get this absolutely right. So that I
Speaker 2:Know. So , um, we wanna make sure every we share the website. Again, that is minds springs health.org or a lot of phone numbers you can call if you need help. So Right.
Speaker 3:Www.mindspringshealth.org. If you go to the website, it's got all the numbers, all the locations, and then you can go right to our psyche if you need help. Okay .
Speaker 2:So thank you, John. Thanks for your hard work. Thanks . And then thank you to your organization for providing mental health services in our community. Thanks
Speaker 3:For letting me talk about it. Absolutely. Appreciate it. This was great.
Speaker 2:Thanks to our guest today. Um, and please reach out if you're having , uh, struggles or problems. And this is a really serious issue, and we definitely want to make Grand Junction a better, safer place to live. So , um, thanks for this conversation today, and we'll see you next time on the Full Circle podcast. Thanks for listening. This is Christie Reese signing out from the Full Circle Podcast.